New game organisation suggestions

[DeviantGent]

So, before the forums went down, there was a very interesting discussion going on about how the games were to be re-organised. This sprung up from a recurring part of the feedback which said that as it stands right now, there was no way of telling the better games from the slightly more dubious in quality, and in particular which ones were relevant to the ongoing story and which were standalone.

So, I present the following suggestions, drawn up in emails between Renegade Implementor and myself, with explainations for the sections crossposted from the other RON topics. Please bear in mind that nothing is set in stone right now, these are but suggestions. Take a look and see what you think.

Canon Games
Games that are crucial in understanding both the RoN universe and the characters that inhabit it. The games in this section are considered canonical and part of the RoN universe timeline. The events in these games are set in stone. Anyone new to RoN and wants to know the timeline and crucial events should go to this section.

Lunchtime Of The Damned
Vengeance of the Chicken
I Spy
Return of Die Vie Ess
The Repossessor
The First Stitch
The Postman Only Dies Once
The Lost Treasure of RON
Dead Man's Political Party
Hooky McPegleg, Pirate Postman
The Underworld
The Phantom Inheritance
I Spy 2
The Unraveling
Paranormal Investigation
Rend
Cabbages and Kings
Kittens and Cacti
Apocalypse Meow (Chapter One)
Defender of RON
Purity of the Surf
The Spoons
III Spy
Rock - A True Story


Stand-alone Games
Games that make use of established characters and events in self-contained stories. While these games do not significantly impact ongoing story or character arcs, they are still considered to have happened and can be referred to in other canon or stand-alone games.

Fowl Play
The Soviet Union Strikes Back
Blastoff!
Nightwatch
Monty on the Norm
Your Bum is Talking
The Punk Allen Trilogy
Strange Days
The Sorceror's Appraisal
The Chef
A Better Mouse Trap
Shadows of RON
MI5 Bob
Disappearance Time
The Petshop Incident
Major Bummer Dude: Lassi Quest RON
Stuck at Home
Simon's Journey
The Crazed Chicken
Cold Storage
Sixteen
Witch!
The Murder of Adrian Elkwood
Root of all Evil


Experimental/Non Canon games
Games in this section are not considered to exist in the RoN universe at all. Events and characters in this section should generally not be referred to in canon or (to a lesser extent) stand-along games. As games in this section are isolated from an official canon, character death is permitted.

Nihilism
Davy Jones C'est Mort
The Universal Equalizer
Davy Jones is Back
Invasion of the Space Aliens...
Commander Keen Enters RON
The Lost Dollar
Before the Legacy
Surreality
That Crazy World
I'm Only Sleeping
RON 13:13 Retaliation
Ron 13:13^2 The Thickening
Yet Another Death of Davy Jones Scenario
Au Naturel
Edge of Reality


Non-Adventure Games
A section for games that are non-adventure: quiz, rpg, action, platform, strategy, etc.

Ron Quiz Part 1
ROTN Quiz game 2
Men of War
Davy Jones's Spellbook
Easter in RON
Pre-RON MI5 Bob
Michael Gower's Zombie Hill


Trailers/Demos
A section for game trailers, game demos, and technical demos

Edge of Reality (demo)
Scoop Da Poop � move to demos � not a game per se, it functions more like a demo
Time Out
Everything that Begins with an M
Drunk Punk Allen Episode 1


My personal take on this layout is that in the case of stand-alone or non-canon games, there can be some change over time. For example, the one thing that really stops Au Naturel being a Canon game is the small fact that Davy Jones is a character in it during a time he was meant to be dead. If this were altered, then it could become a canon game. Essentially, this is a small start with helping people know which events in the series so far warrent referencing or can be happily ignored.

Thoughts?

[Ghost]

The list alone looks very intimidating to a newcomer. I know about RON and have played the odd game, but never got really too involved with it- mostly due to the sheer size of said list of games. If I were a newcomer to AGS too that would mean a double concern: Can I master the engine, and can I get my head around a canon.

I understand the need for canon and have now started to hunt down and download the games mentioned, just for the fun of it, but it still looks a lot.

So, with a canon of 24 games, I think you are setting a pretty solid base, but you also require that these 24 games are known- a lot of effort.

Just my five cents, but more importantly, congratulations on RON being "closer" to the AGS forums now, and on the overall activity. Even as a "casual observer" I know how important RON has been, and still is.

[DeviantGent]

Unfortunatly this is a problem with having so many games submitted over the years. Bear in mind that RON has been around since 2001, and in that time a pretty lengthy set of ongoing stories have developed. Having said that, this new system would mean that not playing the other odd 59 or so games would not be detrimental to doing a game that depended on knowing the current story.

Don't forget, the maker of a RON game doesn't have to do one centered around established characters or story if they choose. They can be completely standalone with original characters, such as the case with RI's 'Cold Storage'. Having clear distinctions in place - unlike previously, where new games were simply added onto the end and it really did give the impression of one long continuous story, something that WAS completly inpenetrable to casually dive into - would go some way to allieviate the intimidation that was once there. Not get rid of it entirely, but make a start of addressing it. Hopefully having wiki entries for these games - addressing significant events, effect on continuity, references to past games etc - will help reduce this intimidation further.

A possible suggestion - would a 'beginner's guide' page, maybe listing 4-5 of the most accessible games, help ease people in and be welcomed? I'm thinking maybe:

Lunchtime of the Damned - first game, sets the tone of the series.
The Repossessor - Carries on a number of themes from the first game.
Purity of the Surf - fairly standalone but features a number of secondary characters and forms a good 'overview' of their relation to each other.
The First Stitch - First in the Tapestry series.
Cabbages and Kings - First in the Night of the Kittens series.

These particular ones would let people easily branch off into the other canon ones, ie the other Tapestry or Kitten games.

[Ghost]

A possible suggestion - would a 'beginner's guide' page, maybe listing 4-5 of the most accessible games, help ease people in and be welcomed?

I think that'd be the way to go, yes. A small selection from the canon with a description *why* the game is canon. Once again I can only speak for myself, but I'd fell much better then- I'm not only being told that out of the larger canon, a few core games stand out, I'd also feel that the community is making an effort to ease me in.

Maybe a "starter pack" containing a selection of games, linked to a big friendly "Get XXX Here" button is possible?

[LimpingFish]

Perhaps someone could put together a "Previously in RON..."-type deal, highlighting the various aspects of the "canon" storyline. Maybe even an AGS-based, interactive one.

Narrated by the homeless weirdo...

[Leon]

Maybe even an AGS-based, interactive one.

That wouldn't be very useful. Then you need both, one as a written story, one as interactive version. If you only have a playable version, you might miss essentials and it's easier to read back in a written story than to have to play the interactive one again.

I'm playing them all at the moment so I should be up2date in a week or 2. Then I can put together the basic story of RoN.

[DeviantGent]

It starts as a pisstake, putting characters in completly implausable messed up situations that have nothing to do with the canon and takes the piss out of dramas/soaps:

(music - 'Escape', Craig Armstrong)

Max: No more games, Wolfgang! Where did you hide the bomb?
Wolfgang: The one place you would never think of looking.
Max: You dont mean...
*beep*
Wolfgang: Yes. The hat.
*Yahtzeebrand explodes*
Mika: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Elandra: Davy... I'm pregnant... and Hooky's the father!

DVE: Soon, everyone will be eating Reese's Puff Cereal... and the WORLD WILL BE MINE!

Gower: Death... I never told you this before... but I can't hold it in any longer...
Death: I know sir. And it's nothing to be ashamed of.
Gower: No one must know my dark secret. NO ONE.
Death: Don't say that, Mr Mayor. Line dancing is a perfectly acceptable pastime.

Elandra: Davy... I'm pregnant... and Melt is the father!

Greyson: This town... the number 23... it all makes SENSE now.

Frank: DROP YOUR WEAPON!
Fred: No, YOU drop YOUR weapon!

Elandra: Davy... I'm pregnant... and the chicken is the father!
Chicken: S'up.
Davy: ... MOMMY?!?

Thakbor: Let me go, Mika! I must fight the demons.
Mika: No Thakbor. YOU are the demons.

*cuts to the Bum in they alley, talking to Mary*

Bum: And then Thakbor became a zombie. Any questions?
Mary: Mary only wanted to know if the strange man had any rum.
Bum: Ah. Right.


... in fact, screw it. How about this for the proposed Lunchtime of the Damned remake? Have this for the intro, then make the Bum tell a REAL story, which segues into the game?

[Ghost]

I think my brain just exploded... 

[Mr Flibble]

To inform and sever.

[DeviantGent]

You crack me up, little buddy.

Being serious for a moment, I believe Creed Malay started a recap thing in the Fiction section where Max Griff narrated the events of the first 5 or so games in first person to an unknown third party in Scids. If this could be continued and given more prominence, then this would do wonders for people wanting an overview of a game and its repercussions in the wider story. Unfortunatly due to the site's current downtime I can't link it, but I'm pretty sure the older members know of what I mean.

[Snarky]

A possible suggestion - would a 'beginner's guide' page, maybe listing 4-5 of the most accessible games, help ease people in and be welcomed? I'm thinking maybe:

Lunchtime of the Damned - first game, sets the tone of the series.
The Repossessor - Carries on a number of themes from the first game.
Purity of the Surf - fairly standalone but features a number of secondary characters and forms a good 'overview' of their relation to each other.
The First Stitch - First in the Tapestry series.
Cabbages and Kings - First in the Night of the Kittens series.

These particular ones would let people easily branch off into the other canon ones, ie the other Tapestry or Kitten games.

That's a great idea. RON is one of those things I've never felt up to tackling due to the amount of material (along with Love & Rockets and The History of Middle-Earth), but just having a shortlist like that makes me feel much more upbeat about the prospect.

[Stumblebum]

Howdy, I am a relative Noob to AGS and am very interested in practicing my nonexistent development skills with something like RoN.  And, as much of this discussion seems centered around making RoN more accessible to little green sprouts such as myself, it seems appropriate that I add my two cents.  I do like a lot of the canon based ideas being tossed around.  It also may be helpful to put together an illustrated "family tree" in order to display important characters, their relationships to one another, and their current state of being(alive/dead/zombie).  Each name could also be linked to their section in the wiki/written summary for further character information.  Also, in order to minimize these complications in the, new entries could be treated sort of like the short films on channel101.com.  Basically, RoN members could vote on each new game as to whether they deserve to influence the canon or not.  Anyway, those suggestions may be complicated or difficult to implement.  I'm just excited to start contributing to the RoN community as much as I can.  

[LGM]

I too would love to delve into the RON world, but I have always been scared away by the huge undertaking of making sense of the plot. So this idea is wholeheartedly supported by me and I hope RON-enthusiasts can band together and create a nice roadmap for new aspiring AGSers

[DeviantGent]

*sniff*

It's all so beautiful... all these people coming out of the woodwork... 'scuse me, I have something in my eye...

*runs out of the room, blubs, comes back in*

But yes, it's quite heartening seeing that a lot of what put people off can be solved with a few admin tweaks and some restructuring. It just goes to show that as the oldies have said, the idea behind RON itself is just as fantastic as it once was.

Now then. *cracks knuckles* Let's do this thing.

[Dualnames]

Good list there DC,  was always wondering what each RON game offered and whether you needed other RON games played before playing...

[Mr_Frisby]

To teh LGM,

Do not feer the ROtN. If it ist the discmbobulating bunny, hit yer self int the hed with getinv.(shovel) or use inv,(roncannnon) and it alth becometh clear.

p.s. I love your monkey.

also
There ist no theme. Just theme maker.

And we be rule benders.

Reinvent, reinvent, reinvent.

FrIBS

[DeviantGent]

I must not fear RON.
RON is the mind humper.
RON is the little crazy than brings total win.
I will face RON.
I will permit myself to play it all.
And when all of RON is played I will look upon my knowledge and twist it to new heights.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing of 'canon' and 'standalone'.
Only awesome will remain.

[Renegade Implementor]

How about: I must not be afraid to ask for assistance in understanding the RoN universe and characters nor shall I let the shades of cowardice and complicated universal backstory prevent me from telling a kickarse story... even if it may contradict something.

Once the site is up and running, the info page will be undergoing an update.  The beginners guide that was posted above can/will most likely be included in the intro to RoN section.

[DeviantGent]

Sweet. I propose something in the style of the Sluggy Freelance New Viewer's Guide. Just with more of a synopsis as to what RON's premise is, along with the suggestions for starting games.

[Akatosh]

So now Davy Jones' death hasn't happened after all? All that retconning is getting confusing, I tells ya.